Papers of the War Cabinet's Eastern Committee [‎195r] (389/544)

LORD CURZON : But do you ? It all depends upon what is the attitude of the
Armenians themselves. Sir Louis Mallet has shown to me the notes of his conversation
with Stevens, who has been between 20 and 30 years our consul in that part of the
world—I met him at Batum myself 30 years ago—and with Mr. Tweed, who has been for
some years in charge of one of the oil companies at Baku.
LORD ROBERT CECIL : He is not there now.
LORD CURZON : I have made a note of what Stevens says. He says it is very
doubtful if the Russian Armenians, many of whom are interested in Baku and the oil
wells, and who also have substantial interests at Tiflis, will wish to join with their
Turkisbibrethren across the frontier. I presume he speaks with authority.
LORD ROBERT CECIL : But he does not say they would not.
LORD CURZON : No ; neither can we say that they will. After all, we have to
rely upon our witnesses.
LORD ROBERT CECIL : His proposition is this. “ With regard to the
Armenians Mr. Stevens is still uncertain how far the Russian Armenians are even yet
prepared to be united with their Turkish compatriots. He states that the district of
Akhalsikh, in the province of Tiflis, has a larger Armenian population than that of
Georgians and Tartars combined, and should, on that account, be Armenian.” The
Turkish Armenians would favour an American or French occupation. The whole
grouping of the Armenian population is, however, at present in a state of flux ; for
example, numbers which he estimated at tens of thousands had gone to Nakhitchevan
in the Don territory to be safe from the Turks.
LORD CURZON : I did not contemplate to-day that we should formally settle
whether we are or are not to play for an independent Russian Armenia. I am not
competent to advise about that, and perhaps none of us here is competent to do so.
What I was about to submit was this: We had a long discussion the other day which
did not terminate in any decision. We have now had a paper by the Chief of the
Imperial General Staff laying great stress on one, or more than one, aspect of the case.
Before I came here I endeavoured roughly to draw up a number of propositions which I
thought of submitting to the committee in order to see if they were in general agree
ment. I thought that would save us the necessity of having the whole discussion over
again. I wanted to do that with regard to Armenia and the Caucasus first, then to do
the same with Syria, and then to get on to the main topic of our conversation this
afternoon, namely, the Hejaz and Arabia. If you will allow me to read out the
propositions which I have roughly drawn up, you can then object to any one of them
as they come. I think it will be an advantage to the Foreign Office when they go to
Paris—and this is the whole purpose of our meeting here—to have the discussions
summed up in a form so as to have something like agreement, if possible. The
propositions which I have ventured to frame are the following. They are very hurried,
and are subject to alteration at any point or any stage : Firstly, that it is desirable to
encourage and foster the political independence of the Trans-Caucasian States, namely,
Georgia, Russian Armenia (subject to further consideration), Daghestan, and Azerbaijan.
As regards the two latter, I gather from the evidence put before the Foreign Office that
it is not unlikely that the Daghestanis—who are Moslems and non-Christians, and may
ultimately find rhemselves isolated and feeble—will wish to join a Tartar State in
Azerbaijan, should such be called into existence. All I am now asking is that general
adhesion should be given to the principle that our policy is, as far as possible, to
encourage the independence of these rising nationalities.
MR. BALFOUR : As against Russia ?
LORD CURZON: I meant as against anybody. We have no designs on their
independence, and I do not think anybody else has. We favour their desire to set up,
create, and establish autonomous existence.
LORD ROBERT CECIL: Of course we should all agree to that, I should
imagine, but the difficulty really is who is to be the protecting Power. None of these
States will be able to stand alone at first.
LORD CURZON : I am coming to that later. This is merely a general proposition
by way of opening. Then No. 2. That of these States Georgia is the most advanced,
and may be entitled to the earliest recognition, but that the recognition of the
remaining States would be premature at the present stage. 3. That in the settlement