Letters and Papers Concerning the Trans-Persian Railway and Other Railways in Persia [‎191v] (382/442)

445 Factory An East India Company trading post. and Workshop
(Ac. 2) Bill. 446
[LORDS]
[The Earl of Donoughmore in the
Chair.]
Clause 1 :
Underground Premises.
1. —(1) On and after the first day of January one
thousand nine hundred and fourteen, or such later
date, not being later than the first day of January one
thousand nine hundred and fifteen, as the Secretary
of State may by order appoint, no underground
room in a factory An East India Company trading post. , workshop, or workplace shall be
used for the purpose of any of the processes or
occupations specified in the Schedule to this Act
unless duly certified by the district council to be
suitable for the process or occupation named in the
certificate, and unless the regulations made under
this Act or the conditions contained in the certificate
are complied with.
(2) For the purposes of this Act an underground
room shall mean any room any part of which is so
situate that the surface of the floor is more than
three feet below the surface of the footway of the
adjoining street, or of the ground adjoining or
nearest to the room.
The Marquess of SALISBURY : The
first question I wish to raise on Clause 1
is that of the meaning of the word “ work
place.” There is no definition of “ work
place ” in the Bill, and what I venture to
submit to the Government is that they
would be well advised in agreeing to some
definition. I know that there is great
difficulty in the matter, and therefore I
have not put an Amendment on the Paper
dealing with this point, but I shall be
ready to do so at the next stage. It is
true that the word “ workplace ” has
already received Judicial interpretation,
and that that interpretation is of a very
wide character ; but we have to think not
merely of the legal effect of the words in the
Bill but of the indication which its pro
visions will constitute to the local authorities
who have to carry it out. The local
authorities who will primarily have to
carry out the provisions of this Bill are
the district councils, and if they are
presented with a Bill dealing in rather a
drastic way for the first time with work
places of a certain character and are not told
what a workplace means, they may feel
rather bewildered, and may take what,
after all, is the easiest refuge for a be
wildered local authority—namely, do
nothing at all. That is the most likely
issue of any doubt on their part as to what
workplace ” means. Therefore as we
are all anxious, and I am sure the Govern
ment are, to make this Bill effective,
it is necessary that some definition of
workplace ” should be inserted, so that
there should be an indication on the face
of the Bill as to the scope the local authori
ties are intended to take in administering
it. I do not know whether the noble Lord
who represents the Home Office has had
time to consider this point.
The PAYMASTER-GENERAL (Lord
Strachie) : As the noble Marquess is
aware, there is a great deal of difficulty
in regard to this question. The danger is
that you may either be too elastic in your
definition or too limited and too narrow,
and you may raise difficulties in that way.
At present there is no definition of “ work
place ” in the Factories Acts. Parliament
so far has not thought fit to frame any
definition of the word, although it has been
in use in Public Health Acts for something
like thirty years, during which period
there has been only one case brought
before the Courts for an interpretation of
the word “ workplace.” The point in that
case was whether or not a cabyard was a
workplace, and the learned Judge held that
in that particular case the cabyard was a
workplace, but he refused to give any
precise definition of what a workplace
was. If the noble Marquess, between
now and the Report stage of the Bill, can
make any suggestion on the point—and
it must be remembered that any definition
inserted in this Bill would have to be read
with the existing Factories Acts—the Home
Office will be ready to consider it. But
I would urge him, seeing that this legisla
tion has worked so well during the last
thirty years, whether it is not wise to leave
well alone in this particular case.
The Marquess of SALISBURY : I will
not press the matter further at this moment,
but I should be glad of a conversation with
the noble Lord upon it. The first Amend
ment standing in my name on the Paper is
to Clause 1 , and it deals with the definition
of what constitutes, if I may coin a word,
“ undergroundness.” As the Bill stands,
it says that an underground room shall
mean any room any part of which is so
situate that the surface of the floor is
more than 3 feet below the surface of the
footway of the adjoining street or of the
ground adjoining or nearest the room.
That, in fact, does not make a room under
ground, and it clearly cannot be said to
be such a distinction as to justify putting
such a workroom under the drastic pro
visions of this Statute. I venture to think
we shall make a great mistake if we pass