Papers of the War Cabinet's Eastern Committee [‎206r] (411/544)

GENERAL SMUTS: Yes, I see your point; but I do not think that is so.
LORD CURZON: 6, in my view, was not intended to be read with 7, which
follows it, but should be read with 5, which precedes. We are considering the
possible future of these States, and we say that whether they wish to constitute
a federation of their own or to remain separate is a matter that concerns themselves,
and that whether they go back to Russia or not equally concerns themselves.
LORD ROBERT CECIL: It is true that No. 5 does entirely concern them, but
is it true to say it is a matter that only concerns them whether they go back to
Russia or not? 1 should rather have doubted it, in view of the expressions of
military opinion at the last meeting.
LORD CURZON: What you want to do is to qualify the phrase “ is a matter
that concerns themselves”? You mean it concerns us and other people too?
LORD ROBERT CECIL: Yes. You say “ Go back to Russia if you like, it
does not matter to us ;” then you go on to deal with the possible position of other
Great Powers, and you say, as I think, rather too strongly, according to my view,
although I think the Committee agree with you and not with me, you rather strongly
reject France—at any rate you reject France^—and you do not like America, and
you say that we should be very reluctant to accept any position there, I admit I
rather share Mr. Montagu's view, that it is possible to exaggerate the importance
of the Caucasus to us. Personally I should have thought almost anything, from
our strict national point of view, was better than that these States should go back
to a powerful Russia. I think that would be the most dangerous to us of all the
solutions discussed last time.
LORD CURZON: I was not contemplating that at all. There are struggling
into existence in the regions of the north of the Caucasus various new Russian
States. There are the States that are endeavouring to be set up by the Cossaeks,
and I can well conceive a situation of affairs in which a Cossack State might come
into existence from the Don territory and the north of the Caucasus to the Caspian,
and that this community, if it attained an independent and reasonably powerful
existence, might desire to enter into a federation with these offshoots of the old
Russian Empire lying to the south of the main Caucasian range.
GENERAL MACDONOGH: Is there a military danger if they join with
Russia? I think there is great deal of danger in Trans-Caucasia being in the
hands of any Western Power. It is an avenue to India, but it is not an avenue for
Russia to India. It is not the Caucasus that is a danger to India from the Russian
side but the Orenburg line. The Caucasus may be a danger to the people on the
west.
LORD CURZON: Would you like to qualify the phrase, by saying that it is
a matter which in the main concerns themselves?
LORD ROBERT CECIL: I should rather like to leave out No. 6.
LORD CURZON: It is put in with a deliberate purpose. Let us suppose
that they are able to build up a number of Russian communities north of the
Caucasus, and that the Caucasian States, whatever our relations with them in the
future, say to us “What do you think about cur joining a Russian State or a Russian
Federation of the Caucasus ”? I should like to reply “ That is a matter for you;
we do not desire to interfere with you; in the same way as we should be happy to see
you join among yourselves, so, if you consider it desirable to join with a Russian
community, well and good.” * ,
MR. BALFOUR: I do not think you can ever prevent people joining if they
want to join, and it isi incredible that they should not be allowed to join. If these
people do want to join Russia, if you think that is possible, and it is possible, I do
not thing it is any use saying we do not like it. We cannot stop it. What we can
stop, if a League of Nations is worth anything, is Russia saying “ Now you must
join us whether you like it or not.” If they want to join Russia I cannot imagine the
world coming and saying “No, you must remain independent,” when they do not
wish to be independent.
LORD CURZON: Do you see any objection to the words?
MR. BALFOUR: No. For that reason I do not greatly dissent from No. 6.
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